Curse

kobey · Jun 07, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessar

I've never had any pugs as bad as you guys have....

Haha, I thought you were refering to all the posters untill i read the entire post

Fixed it for ya

Nessar · Jun 07, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Haha, I thought you were refering to all the posters untill i read the entire post

Fixed it for ya

Omai ty...Heh it's early..My brain is still sleeping

Clarissa F · Jun 07, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosan

Maybe that's why they didn't "bother" to do the attribute quests, because they still can't do them. You can get the quests after you get to the South Shiverpeaks.

One you get in the Crystal Desert. Big statue goes boom, you cross, you get 15 AP. "Forgotten Wisdom". If they are from NF or Factions, there is NO excuse, as you get them on newbie island in both cases, and just need to gain SS points to get them in NF.

OP: Yeah, most pugs suck, but they always have. Good players tend to form guilds and play together. Others like to go solo and will go H/H. The rest PUG.

rick1027 · Jun 07, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

my two cents if im playing monk i take no rez mainly cause my bar is full but i do bring rez scrolls and i bring them also on any chars that i cant find a space for a hard rez or signet. and ive never had to use them on my monk so far

Alex the Great · Jun 07, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation. A crazy circle...

or you could just get a party that dosent die.

like H/H!

zelgadissan · Jun 07, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Today in Dragon's Lair... Two monks.

One pinged:
[mind burn] [teinai's heat] [meteor shower] [lava arrows] [fire storm] [glyph of lesser energy] [lava font] [resurrection signet]

12 in fire, 10 in healing (hadn't even done the quests yet for attribute points).

Am I the only one that finds this kinda impressive? I mean, if he's doing Dragon's Lair for the first time and has Mind Burn, plus Teinai's Heat and Lava Arrows, that means he (presumably) got here from Factions while being too lazy to save a woman and clean Zen Daijun. This dude has epic fail written all over him and still managed to get his ass to Dragon's Lair. Not too shabby in my book, might have to turn my own monk into a nuker

N1ghtstalker · Jun 07, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

PUG's are bad
i've been 8 minutes in one RA match
how?
the last living ele was having a tombs build and was shadowstepping all over the place outrunning the other team constantly
he annoyed me and the other enemy team
it was a sight for sore eyes

Rhaegor Stormborn · Jun 07, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?
(

Every class has a resurrection or two, why should Monks have to bring one? Monks should not be wasting a bar spot on resurrection.

Miss Puddles · Jun 07, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

regardless of your profession, i have found that it is usually best to bring a res skill if you have room for it in your build. this goes for monks as well.
also, never use res mid battle.
that is all.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 07, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

Insults yet no answers. On level 28 monsters warriors can hit for around 40-70 dmg, fire eles can hit for much higher. I am still waiting to hear what war skill can out do a ele skill. So far no one has offered anything except insults. Which leads me to believe no one has anything to offer and I am correct.

You don't seem to understand. Even caster mobs have 70+al. Elementa damage from spells is affected by armour. Warrior weapon attacks are reduced too but their attack skills do +damage, which is armour ignoring.

Even if an ele skills deals more damage in a single hit, the warrior has landed multiple hits in the time taken, dealing larger damage overall without paying energy for it.

Casters are better off giving support and "splash damage". Running a team of physicals with casters using skills such as [[barbs] or [[splinter weapon] increases the damage of a single warrior to higher than that of multiple pure damage casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy

On the monks carrying ress issue.
A monk is expected to have HB, 2 seeds, hex and condi removal, skills to heal directly, energy management, heal party and a ress.
Well now I would love to see a bar that contains all that and is effective at healing 8 man groups.

That sounds like the bad pure heal monk ursan teams use. As far as i'm concerned a monk has to have a spot heal or two, small prot, large prot, condition/hex removal as needed, a block skill and talent. Although your correct about the no res on monk, your example bar is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Puddles

regardless of your profession, i have found that it is usually best to bring a res skill if you have room for it in your build. this goes for monks as well.
also, never use res mid battle.
that is all.

Non monks using a res in mid battle is what prevents party wipes. That 4-6 seconds you are doing onthing is replaced with a whole other skillbar.
loosing any role exceot damage mitigation is price enough to pay for that.

Gun Pierson · Jun 08, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I can understand that in a well oiled team where players know eachother, the monks won't bring a hard res.

But seriously, if you go DoA HM full run or UW HM clear (which are almost the only situations where I pug anymore) you must bring a hard res as a monk. There are no shrines, a party wipe will teleport you back, the ursans can't res in battle. Yeah I go with Ursan teams there, because it's the fastest way to get started and to just complete the areas.

A good monk feels the situation and retreats when all other options are gone. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.

What kinds of hard res and when to use them depends on the team and the situation.

Riceboi · Jun 08, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

A good monk feels the situation and retreats when needed. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.

winner winner!

Tyla · Jun 08, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Gun, you should bring heavy preperation to areas like those anyway, as all ANet did was buff everything to the rims of stupidity and make huge mobs which create lag. (At least for me anyway)

And even then, I didn't know these guys I did it with via balanced, and we made quite decent progress until the Divert Monk was out of energy because neither of the melee can gain adrenaline (No Earth Shaker) because of the amount of hexes (5 antimelee and tons more).

Areas like that, preperation and player skill is much stronger than a res on a Monk, and that 8th slot on your Monk bar could've also prevented a wipe.

A Monk should always have an active skill bar.

In the case of overaggroing, just don't do it.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 08, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I can understand that in a well oiled team where players know eachother, the monks won't bring a hard res.

But seriously, if you go DoA HM full run or UW HM clear (which are almost the only situations where I pug anymore) you must bring a hard res as a monk. There are no shrines, a party wipe will teleport you back, the ursans can't res in battle. Yeah I go with Ursan teams there, because it's the fastest way to get started and to just complete the areas.

A good monk feels the situation and retreats when all other options are gone. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.

What kinds of hard res and when to use them depends on the team and the situation.

The name "Hard Mode" and "Elite Area" hint that those area's are not supposed to be easiliy accessible by a pug team anyway. Your using ursan as an example but thats an exception to the rule, where the ursans themseves do not have access to a res most of the time. Its also on hot debate on even if ursan should be allowed in the game at the moment, because as you have pointed out it allows bad players to complete elite areas with bad monks.

The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build.
Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party.

Last time i did DoA only 3 party members had a res, a paragon a Rt and a ranger.

ogre_jd · Jun 08, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build.
Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party.

Um, hate to tell you this, but a Healing specialist Monk is every bit as much of a real Monk as a Protection specialist Monk is - or as a Smiting specialist is.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 08, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Um, hate to tell you this, but a Healing specialist Monk is every bit as much of a real Monk as a Protection specialist Monk is - or as a Smiting specialist is.

Thats nice. Read properly next time.

Monks are there to do more than spam heal party with the occasional single target heal. Anyone who has only played that build simply does not know how to play the profession properly because that build does not teach them anything but to stand back and spam skills.

It's not a "specialist" build, a healing prayers only monk should still have at least hex/cond removal. It's simply a build designed for bad players to spam healing without paying much attention.

Gun Pierson · Jun 08, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Gun, you should bring heavy preperation to areas like those anyway

Areas like that, preperation and player skill is much stronger than a res on a Monk, and that 8th slot on your Monk bar could've also prevented a wipe.

A Monk should always have an active skill bar.

In the case of overaggroing, just don't do it.

I agree, the prob is we're talking about pugs here, you don't really know what you're gonna get. Heavy preparation is a key factor, but once the team starts playing things can turn out differently than discussed in town. One example is over aggro, you can say to them: 'don't do it', but those things happen. Disconnects, lags etc.

Ursan is a special example, but it's the mainstream in pugging. If this is a good thing or not is another discussion. The rest of the game can be h/h even in HM. The only reason I see to pug there is because one likes to pug.

The point I wanne make is that I prepare for the worst case scenario, cause when it comes to pugging, I can only trust myself. My hard res saved so many groups it's not even funny anymore, while still playing with a very active 7 skills bar. Ofcourse I would like to drop it, pugging reality forces me to bring it though.

That eight slot is exactly the prevention of a party wipe in the form of a hard res. I bet on that instead of one more active skill which must be used in the heat of the battle where you can't control everybody and everything. With the hard res you have the final control tool and you can use it without being under pressure. Pressure can lead to mistakes or wrong descisions. It's maybe harsh to say, but as a monk you want to have the situation under control, so control is power.

You can have all the talent, skills and wisdom, but if the party do gets wiped and you don't have a hard res or scrolls...What are you gonna tell them? 'You noobs', followed by a rage quit? It's a pug, not everybody is as skilled or experienced as you are, even though they may say and think they are.

Tyla · Jun 08, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Well, you CAN always use a Res Scroll...

Alex the Great · Jun 08, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build.
Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party.

Last time i did DoA only 3 party members had a res, a paragon a Rt and a ranger.

this is full on bs. I've done PVe Pvp and ursan monking. What you said is like saying that people that 600/smite to much cant do normal monking.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 08, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

this is full on bs. I've done PVe Pvp and ursan monking. What you said is like saying that people that 600/smite to much cant do normal monking.

I seid people who ONLY play that build. Most people who play monk in ursan teems seem to have made their monks for farming and only play monk in those teams to save grinding norn title.

You honestly believe someone who has only ever played that build could be capable with a standard monk build in a regular team?